Flag Burner Justice
You just don’t mess with the flag at the Chester James Carknard VFW Post 1938 in Valley Falls, New York.
That was proven last weekend when a drunk was refused service Friday night in the Post lounge because he didn’t have proper identification. It turns out the guy went outside to the Post flagpole, lowered the flag and burned it right there on the VFW Post property.
This wasn’t just any U.S. flag; it was a flag that flew over a fox hole in Iraq. A fox hole that several U.S. soldiers never made it out of alive.
Post Commander Nick Normile, a Vietnam veteran, was so incensed over the flag burning that he hunted the man down.
Commander Normile found him on Sunday and duct taped him to the flag pole. Normile said the guy didn’t deny it, said he was drunk. Let’s just say he volunteered to sit out here duct taped to the pole.
For six hours the man sat duct taped to the pole, wearing a sign describing his actions. People passing by snapped pictures of the scene.
“I told him to sit there like those kids that were in that foxhole and see what they felt like because you are only getting a small taste of what they went through,” Normile told NEWS10.
He adds the man learned his lesson, and with that lesson learned, Normile now wants to protect the man from any violent retaliation.
Normile asked NEWS10 not to reveal the man’s name to also protect the young man’s family.
The bits of the flag that survived will be retired during an official ceremony.
Now that’s flag burner justice, VFW style. I think the guy got off easy.
Check out the video from News10 out of Albany, New York. BTW this video loads slow.
Dear EGIB:
I have very strong, but conflicting emotions, about this. As a strict Constitutionalist, I believe everyone has the right to free expression, whatever level that expression might be. On the other hand, some levels of expression have absolutely no merit, like yelling “fire” in a crowded movie theatre, or shouting “fuck” in church. While one may actually cause injury to the crowd, the other imparts no educational, informational, no philosophical enrichment. It would even be regarded as ineffective, and thoroughly insulting, protest.
The guy who burned the flag outside the VFW post is an idiot. There is not enough liquor in the world to make a rational person think that being denied a few drinks could possibly justify burning the national symbol in front of a servicemen’s club. While the guy submitted to a kind of public penance, nothing is going to go right for this poor dope over the next few years. Every bar he goes into will have a guy in the service, or a relative of a guy in service, or a friend of someone killed in service, or just a patriot, who may eventually (in a matter of seconds) decide to beat the shit out of this character.
It is unconscionable to me that anyone would trade the symbol of America for a couple of drinks.
But what if the perpetrator had been a retired Green Beret, or a Medal of Honor winner, or just a grunt who was tired of losing friends on the battlefield to the kind of decision-making that starts in the White House in the hands of dopes, who’d never slung a rifle? Would that man have earned that right then? I have met people who have put in their time, and a limb or too, who are a lot less convinced they got good advice, or support, in the first place.
None of them are likely candidates to burn a flag though. They know where the red in that flag comes from. I respect the action taken by the post commander in this story. The lesson is clear… If you are going to burn a flag, be very careful where you do it. Lafayette Park outside the White House is probably a safe place. But by the same token, one has to question the motivation of the guy who sat taped to the pole. I think he may have taken the easy way out. (We don’t know the other options.)
If I were him, I’d sign into AA immediately. I’d write a public apology and send it to the papers. I’d volunteer for service in a veteran’s hospital. And I’d stand in the street in front of that VFW and apologize to those men and women every day — for the next ten years.
Someday, a misguided zealot will burn an American flag in a crowd, and those people will beat the shit out of him, or kill him. The Constitution will weep that day… But people will learn there are responsible limits to effective self-expression. To the drunk who burned that flag, a worse punishment would have been to send his picture to any bar within a 50-mile radius, with an explanation of what he had done, and asking to support or oppose his actions with their hospitality.
This would have been nothing to a man who believes that burning flags is his best method of expression… But a lot to a stupid drunk.
Fondest regards,
Jack • reep • Toad
Comment by Jack Riepe — October 2, 2009 @ 8:20 am
Alright, alright. You posted something that I would like to post on. I’m gonna link to this post in a couple of days if you don’t mind.
Yeah, that guy was way wrong in the worst way. Only because of the motive and circumstances involved. I can only repeat what Jack said in his comment for the most part. I treat the flag with the upmost respect because it is a symbol of sacrifice and what I believe in as I am a Constitutionalist myself.
If I had my way, all U.S. flags would be made out of material that just won’t burn unless you held a blowtorch to them for a good hour or so! However, that is just the opinion of this one man. I dare not impose my beliefs on another because of what I believe in. I can only try to persuade and stand boldy on my own opinion and beliefs.
Here is the question. Does a man do what he does out of rebellion or spite for selfish reasons or does he do it to make a point in the name of our Constitution and what stands for. That is what makes all the difference in my book.
Based on this story, I would have shoved my foot so far up this guys ass that the tred prints on the bottom of my boot would show up in tomorrows shit….just because of his motive alone. That isn’t freedom of expression…that is just plain dumbass and a total lack of respect that infringes upon the rights of others. Screw that. I’m not for that in the least.
I get tired of folks thinking freedom means “freedom to do whatever I want”. It just ain’t so. You have to understand freedom comes with a price and a responsibility for it to mean a damned thing.
Thanks man.
Comment by FLHX_Dave — October 3, 2009 @ 10:05 am
Jack and FLHX_Dave,
Thanks for the comments. We are truly possessors of priceless freedoms covered in the Constitution. Yet one thing that so many Americans hold dear to their heart, is up for grabs every day.
FLHX_Dave, You have permission to link to this post or any post as far as that goes.
Comment by Electra Glide In Blue — October 4, 2009 @ 7:27 am
Ah hell I’d a just kicked his worthless ass.
Comment by Webster World — October 6, 2009 @ 1:14 pm
I agree with what was said in the comments prior to mine.
They should have also pressed charges . The flag wasn’t his. That’s arson.
Comment by Mr. Motorcycle — October 7, 2009 @ 5:25 am
Two things:
Getting drunk = getting stupid.
I love the justice of this. I can’t even begin to imagine what our vets have been through. Giving this guy just a taste was inspired.
Thank you to all who serve to make my freedom possible.
Comment by kathy — October 7, 2009 @ 3:52 pm
Up-Date,
I did get FLHX_DAVE to thinking, and you have to read his post over at Road Grits Cafe
Comment by Electra Glide In Blue — October 7, 2009 @ 5:06 pm
Webster, You da man.
Mr Motorcycle, Thanks for stopping by and I agree sounded like arson/destruction of property to me.
Kathy, Thanks for the comment, you have a nice looking blog going, keep it up.
Comment by Electra Glide In Blue — October 7, 2009 @ 5:14 pm